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Rebel Scientist Epi 13 Sarah and Russ feel lightheaded with Dr. Joe DiDuro





Russ: We’re here today again, because we’re in the middle of going through your friends’ list and finding your amazing friends and going through and meeting who they are and learning something new every week. So, let’s meet your new friend today.

Sarah: Yes, today we have Dr. Joe DiDuro. And Joe is a chiropractic doctor. But he’s also an expert in photobiomodulation and resilience and a lot of other things besides, and Joe has been training me in his proneuro program. So that’s a coaching program for brain health, a six-month program. And so I’ve been trained in that. And I’m a coach for that. So that’s something that we do together. So I’m hoping we can talk a bit about some of our process there and some of the aspects of the program, because I think it’d be very cool. In particular heart rate variability and intra nasal use of light. So that’s light up your nose to you, Russ.

Russ: That’s wonderful. Yeah, but I’ve been reading about heart rate, because I have it, my heart rates been pretty high. My sitting heart rate, because I haven’t moved from this chair for a year. So I’m excited. I know you’ve talked a lot about Dr. Joe, and I’m excited to meet you, Dr. Joe, Welcome!

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Thank you. It’s my pleasure to participate in this. I just want to jump it off and say that I know that we’re are a rebel scientist here. And I think that’s a good put together. But we’re citizen scientists. I think a lot of people who are paying attention here, citizen scientists, and when you think about yourself and your sovereignty, that’s when you become a little bit of a rebel.

Sarah: Yeah. Every week on this podcast, we talk about taking personal responsibility for your health. And I think really, that’s the rebellious part. Because we’ve been a little bit conditioned by mainstream medicine to kind of put all your faith in someone else with regards to your health, and your wealth and everything else. But here on the show, we’re just giving some useful tips for people who want to start taking control themselves, and yeah, you’re right, sovereignty is the name of the game here.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: I mean, if you don’t have self-care, as one of your perspectives, you are kind of always reworking this to what’s best for me, how does this work for me? And I think that’s the key, you have to make a decision to be well, you don’t have to make a decision really, to be sick. It just things will just go to the devil if you just leave them alone.

Sarah: Yes. So, Joe, what we’ve been working on is, of course, you’ve got your coaching program, which I’m now one of the coaches. But part of that is a step by step program, kind of taking people through that process of one how to start taking control and then using different kinds of technologies and also monitoring because that’s a big part of taking control of your own health is actually monitoring what you’re doing. So, maybe, you can tell us a bit about how you’ve got to that place yourself?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, I mean, my work has been neuro rehabilitation for pretty much my whole career started out as a chiropractor than a chiropractic neurologist and then a master’s in clinical research, so we were always measuring stuff. And then when we get into the clinical world, “how did you sleep?” “I slept good.” “How was your rest?” “I rested well.” So we didn’t really have any information. And we were doing distance coaching, long before the lockdown. So our ability to gather data was very limited. So you were looking through a keyhole in a dark room, and trying to examine the sounds, “Oh, that sounded even so. Having bio data was very helpful. And then being able to put that into a dashboard that we could actually use and give feedback to the person was really where it’s at.

Sarah: Yeah, we have. And we’ve talked a lot on the show about different ways of measuring, from simple just pencil and paper and writing down up to orderings, and the whoop and bio strap and other things like that. And so, what do your kind of recommend for people starting out, because a lot of people listening to this and not kind of bought into the whole thing?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, let’s just talk about this for one second, because from a clinical perspective, you have to treat to an outcome. I mean, we have to sit down and have, “What’s your goal?” And then say, “Well, how do we arrive there?” And then what problem is, is the decision making gets blasted by data?

How do you make a decision, when you have myriads of mounds of data, and people become paralyzed, right, they can’t make a choice?

So, they want the doctor to tell them what to do. And what’s Dr. Google, tell them what to do. I’m not sure if Dr. Google has a nice beard like me, though, right?

Sarah: So nobody can see, okay, we’re gonna have to imagine that.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Perfect face for radio. So that’s the thing is that you have to treat to an outcome. And so one of the things that we use is,

we use heart rate variability as one real significant outcome, because it’s sort of your joy score. And it’s really a measure of your resiliency, if you will.

So let’s just give a quick definition before we go into that. So you’ll have a certain amount of variability in the beats of your heart. And the higher that heart rate variability versus heart rate Russ, that you were talking about, the difference in those things is sort of like your bandwidth, your emotional, physical stress bandwidth. And if that’s low or small, that means that stressors in life are going to be able to have a greater effect on you, you’re following me? So how do you manage these people? Well, the data comes in, and it’s raw, and they don’t know anything. And so you have to explain it to them and bring them up to speed. But the bottom line is, there’s certain things that you can do to increase your resiliency, increase your scores, if you will, for being physically, mentally and emotionally, well, healthier.

Sarah: Yeah, that’s cool. And I know I’ve been because the first guest we had on was Molly McLaughlin. And she was talking to us a lot about sleep. And as a challenge, I’ve been doing some activities to help increase my sleep. And I know that you’ve been helping me with the heart rate variability aspect of that, because we go through the data on a weekly basis, and that’s something that you can get all this information yourself, but it’s good sometimes to get someone to coach you through it. Because sometimes, there is a lot of information coming out of all of these gadgets.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: We’re at data dump and it doesn’t really help you make decisions, the kind of the secret sauce, if you will, when we’re dealing with people is being a brain geek that’s why we’re together is that a traumatic brain injury will mess up your sleep terribly. It will mess up your emotions terribly. And then if you look at the end, so your brain’s not going to be working right when you have a booboo, like, concussion, fall, something sports related injury, things like that. So that that’s sort of like that stress impact that you’re going to have and then how resilient are you? How can you overcome it? So many people don’t really tie it together that a traumatic brain injury or booboo in your head is going to lower your heart rate variability, it’s gonna mess up your sleep. So you can’t take a green juice and fix your brain, you have to actually get in there and fix it. And that’s why,

my work in transcranial photobiomodulation both the head, the nose, the blood, wherever you can get it in the body is so key for helping people like, boom, get better sleep, get better HRV, get better emotional health.

I mean, when you look at it, and you tie it all in, it really comes down from the brain, from that little three pounds of jello up inside your skull that you carry around all day, that is your whole world. So anything that hurts the brain is going to have effects on your physical, mental, emotional and life. And all those things are connected when you start to gather the data you like, “Why is this not working?” I’m taking my green juice, and doing what he said. But they’re leaving out the most important part, which is your part that describes your humanity, which is the stuff between your ears and behind your eyes.

Russ: So, when you talk about brain injury, then so there’s physical brain injury? Is there traumatic brain injury as well, when your kind of put those in there some understanding someone’s history? If there’s traumatic brain injury, I assume that also goes into the equation?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, you have to kind of pick the lock Russ. So it’s like, if I look at my clients, and I’d see a scar on their forehead, and I said, “Have you ever had a head impact or somebody struck you got in a fight? You know, something?” “No.” And I said, “Well, I see a scar right there. Oh, well, that was nothing I just got through the windshield and flipped and broke my arm” and like, “Well, if there’s a scar on the outside, there’s a scar on the inside, who’s addressing that?” Well, because it’s under diagnosed. And because, maybe 10 - 20% of these traumatic brain injuries, they linger, and then you’re gonna have another one, then you’re gonna have another one, then you’re going to have another one. And then you have a life stress, and then you’ll have an illness. And all this stuff is pushing the capacity of your brain and nervous system to recover. So any kind of trauma. And so let’s just think about how many times you hit your head when before you were 10. In my case, my mother, is her first memories of me are really being knocked out. So just add those up, add those up, add those up, and who’s addressing them? Who’s cleaning those things out? Who’s increasing the brain’s power, giving you more capacity to deal with life stresses?

Russ: Yeah, I’ve had so many I can’t remember. Before 10 and after 10 was even worse.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: That’s what I said, they go away, “No, And I never really, I never went to the emergency room.” when we get done with a football game the coach said, “If you got any pain, put ice on it.” And I said, “I got a headache.”

Russ: Take some time off. I was knocked out cold and in the first half, and came back and played in the second half, don’t remember anything about it.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Tell me about it.

Russ: Yeah, I have a daughter who was an active soccer player, quite good, loved watching her play, but got one concussion, recovered, and then just boom, boom, boom, four and within a year. And that was it. She couldn’t concentrate, her grades dropped. And the healing process was initiated by quit playing soccer because of the head. But I mean, ultimately, that was it. So when it comes to recovery, for something like that, it’s super important that you create the space to allow yourself to recover from something like that.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Let’s just bring this up a little bit more, the hand gets calloused, and the whole gets smooth. That’s a farmer’s analogy that, let’s reduce the stress, let’s become fragile. And that’s really not your objective as a human is to become less fragile, is to become more resilient, more anti-fragile. And so really creating the space is a great analogy. But the point is, you have to create it in the space between your ears, you have to give these people the ability to increase the circulation, clean out their brain, get rid of the junk, so that they can maybe that green juice can actually get in, maybe some new fluid can get in there. And that’s why the sleep is so important because that’s when you’re doing your major brain repair. And when we watch people with fragmented sleep, they just think they’re not getting there. So they’re just trying to put more stuff into a brain that’s already clogged up with inflammatory chemicals. But in maybe debris, you don’t think about it, we’re talking about impacts that you could see and feel. But in a car accident, your head, the seatbelt keeps you there, keeps you held, but your head is flying through space. And that head being pulled off of your body is popping nerves, axons are exploding in your brain. And you’re like, “Whoa, that’s pretty serious. I didn’t really bang anything. I don’t feel anything but I’m dull after that.” And I just can’t come back and I can’t go to school, and I can’t do this. And I’m not a good person. I mean, everything starts to unfold. And guess what happens, you just get passed along. And because this is such a new science, Russ and Sarah that, we stuck our toes in, and now we stuck our whole body into it. And now we’re putting light in our head and our body and up our nose, because we want to be better people, we want to increase our capacity to beat the world that’s trying to beat us down.

Sarah: I think we’re really talking about everyone who’s listening because whether or not you’ve had a traumatic brain injury, we’ve all played in sports or had little car accidents or something or other. And you’re set, if it’s affecting your sleep probably what maybe one of the indicators that maybe you have got something going on there is if you have bad sleep, or is if you have terrible mood swings, or those kinds of things will indicators, but I think probably it’s best to think to assume, “Okay, what can I do to maximize your brain,” even if you don’t think you’ve had a traumatic brain injury, all of the things that we’re going through, are going to raise the game anyway, regardless,

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Think about it. Think about it, like when we talk about, let’s just come at it from a couple different ways. So there’s a lot of research on Holocaust survivors, just a lot of research on like, tsunami, earthquake, catastrophe. How did these people make it? So it’s not a blast injury or a force on their brain, but it’s a trauma. So think about this, if my Humvee blows up, and I get hit by shrapnel, but the sound waves batters my brain and hurts those nerves is it’s like just what it does, just like I described earlier, and it creates an implement inflammatory cascade. Well, how come they get these emotional disorders? How come they go sleep and emotion and everything, it’s all inside there.

So, if you put transcranial photobiomodulation on people, their depression goes away. If you put transcranial photobiomodulation on people, their brain capacity, they get become smarter, they have all these good things. So why not use the technology that we have to overcome and repair the damage from trauma.

Russ: Sarah and Joe, doctor, both of you are now going through coaching and training with this, is there something, is the photobiomodulation something that you can apply, like cryo therapy now where I can go in and get the cold air on my swollen ankle? And then I can go in and get that done is that that accessible now?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: I think so there’s the science is new. So you want to really individualize it. So yes, if you’re a brain guy, and you have you understand what’s happening, or you’re a clinician that takes care of these people, you may have some guidelines, outcomes, column guardrails, or those blow up things that go in the bowling alley. So those are important because we are messing with your brain. So you of course, there’s people that go in and do transcranial magnetic stimulation and put this big magnet on your head balm away and say, “Hey, you’re better now, are you?” So, yes, you can do it, and you can modify it. But sometimes, it’s more than one thing. But if you have a stack, if you’re a biohacker, and you’re doing your stack, and you think that putting a red light panel in your house is going to increase the function of your brain, well, good, more power to you. But putting it where it needs it right in the brain, on the brain, on the skull, up the nose, on the blood. That’s really where you’re going to get the benefits and if you run into trouble in some of our people do have trouble like we take care of cognitive athletes who want to be sharp when they go into their meetings, to all the way to post concussion to people who are starting to slip in their memory to people who are trying to help their parents and their caregivers for parents with Alzheimer’s disease. All of those have a different flow. And they need a little bit different spice. And that’s where we come in.

Russ: Can I go back really quick? My job here is to play to my level of intelligence, which is incredibly low, amazing, so I need this, well, you need spoon fed a little bit. When you talk about heart rate variability. And you mentioned that the less variability your reaction to stressors is actually probably worse. Can you talk about what is healthy variability?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: So, there’s a lot of debate on that, there’s all these averages and everything like that, but let’s just put it this way. It’s, people look at the heart rate variability, and it’s a score, but they don’t know if it’s bowling or golf. Bowling; you want a high score, golf; you want a low score. So it’s bowling. You want a high score, that’s your resiliency, that’s your happiness, that’s your ability to cope, if you will, with the stuff that’s coming your way. So, it’s a very complex number that people kind of do all this mathematics to, but it’s really the kind of a measure of, of the chaos that’s happening inside your body, you know what I mean? It’s, you are not a robot, you are human. And you’re existing in a stressful environment, that’s what we were made to do. And we’re made to survive. And this is kind of one of the things that if you have a low number, your chance of all death, mortality goes up and you’re going to be depressed, and you’re going to be down in the dumps, and you’re going to be messed up. So you have to kind of have a balance between the two parts of your nervous system that really are integrating in your heart, which is your sympathetic nervous system, which is fight or flight, and then the parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest. So most people are stepping on the gas all the time, and they pump the brakes and say, “The brakes aren’t working,” I go, “don’t take your foot off the gas a little bit. And come to brakes.” “Oh, that’s a whole different world.” So follow me. So it’s all these things that are integrating, and you got to kind of look at it from a whole person perspective. And if you could have one number, that would be good, it probably wouldn’t be your cholesterol.

Russ: I mean, it’s so important now, because you see all these Apple Watches out there. And now everyone has that number. And they’re like, “What does that mean?” Like, I have no idea. So this is great, I think it’s really helpful. Because it’s not just telling you, when you’re resting or when you’re active, it’s telling you a heck of a lot more. And I think that’s something that we should really point out. And it’s really great to know, so then that leads to understanding that then allows you to start some diagnosis and start to give you some coaching mechanisms for the individuals that you’re talking to, along with what we just talked about the history of brain trauma, and things like that, now you’re getting a full scope of that of that person you’re talking to.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: I think it’s fundamental to kind of, I don’t mean to be pun, but shine light onto these peoples for their history.

I mean, you really only get one nervous system. But you can regrow, repair and regain. So you can create more neurons, you can create more freedom, you can create more connections. And that’s what allows you to have more brain power. And more brain power is kind of important, because, that’s really our humanity.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s flexibility, isn’t it Joe, it’s flexibility in system, you want to be able to deal with whatever’s coming up. And that’s really the best measure of it. And so that’s the one that you know, to have an eye on. But the way I see it is like, is because it like you say, humans can be in all kinds of situations, and you want to be able to adapt to whatever situation you’re facing at that moment. And if you can only, go at a certain level, or if you can’t speed up or if you don’t have that ability to react to stress. That’s really what that measurement is. It’s how well can you react to whatever the environment throws at you at that time. And so you want to aim for the greatest possible variation in your responses that you can because that’s going to be the healthiest response to the environment that you are faced with? And because you can’t predict that you need to have a really variable set of reactions. So that’s the goal.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Correct. I like to think about it. I mean, people like this Apple watch and these trackers, they know that they’ve been used by elite athletes and competitive people and everybody’s getting all their stuff tracked. But really, what about our emotional part, their emotional part? I mean, if your heart rate variability is low, you’re not really working to good emotional partnerships, relationships, things like that.

You have more variation; you’re going to be easier to adapt to different relationships.

Russ: Wow, yeah, that is great. You’re really going to be able to figure out toxic relationships then, if that’s the case?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, I liked that. I liked that way. Because there was a woman that I read that was she would go on her Tinder dates and she had checked her heart rate variability and see how it went. Because what is it really? What is really, that’s your vibe. That’s right. I mean, heart rate variability is being generated. That’s electrical signals coming from your heart.

Sarah: You should feel good in someone’s presence. Yeah. Does your heart rate variability go up? Yeah, that’s good.

Russ: Is that so? It’s a bowling score. But you also, you if the variability is there, you have a high score, which is what? What’s a healthy high score? I guess it differs by person, right?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: You got to start where, like, how much can you bench press?

Russ: Oh, I used to be able to bench press a lot, today, not.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Yeah, that’s the glory days. You know, like you said, you have to be a patient until you can bench press 300 pounds, that doesn’t make any sense. So it’s not an Uber, it’s a number as it relates to you, where you start. It’s like a flexibility how flexible, physically. How far to the Well, there’s a lot of factors that go into it? And think of it, it’s your trauma, it’s your history, it’s how much you move. And your heart rate variability. It’s kind of there is genetics to it. That’s your bonding, how you were with your parents, how you were raised. So all of that is you, Russ, and Sarah and Joe. So, that’s your number. And the reality of it is, you want it to go up.

Russ: So what if you don’t have variability? So I’m measuring, I’ve got my numbers in front of me, I have no variability, I am stuck at enough. Can you create variability?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: It’s resiliency, and survivability. So you know what I mean, here’s the thing. A lot of people, Russ, they get their start to look at these data, and they go, here’s my heart rate variability, they look at it and they go, this machine is wrong. And I was like, “No, man, it’s not the machine on your wrist. That’s wrong. It’s the machine that’s running.” So I mean, there’s a little bit of there’s a lot of inaccuracy in these trackers, but we have to kind of go with what we have, until there’s a better mousetrap. But the reality of it is that you’re broke, and you got to get fixed. And then that’s when you put your foot in the ground and start to be resilient.

Russ: Starts to build up against so then you didn’t tailor photobiomodulation to where people are in their variability. Is that how you start to structure it?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: No, I think the proneuro program is eight different components that you really have to take us on and pay attention to. And so kind of stack these things on top of each other. The reality of it is that, as you said, in the beginning, paint with a broad brush, what can I do that quickly increase my heart rate variability, what can I quickly do to help my brain function better? Well, put some lay down, get some kind of light and put it on there. And you could get more specific and give them more tailored, but light on the body is a good thing. So we can go from go out to the sun, it’s a very good thing for you, be outside, have the sun hit you. That’s all good to the point where we can put a specific frequency of infrared light up your nose that will tailor to your brain. So yes, and no, you can be right and not correct. Let’s just start with but we don’t want to be right or wrong. We want to be right and correct. But right is put light on it and see what happens because that’s how the body is going to start to respond. Everything’s going to start to come online. And then they’ll have the memory. Did you do your, did you take your green tea in the morning? “Oh, I forgot.” “Why? Why did you forget?” So, let’s paint with a broad brush. We start with photo bio modulation to get the body on line to see what doesn’t kick in. Will it change your gut microbiome? Yes. Will it change Is your hormones? Yes? Will it change your mitochondria activity? Yes. And once that kicks in for a while, what’s left? Once the body starts to come online and the brain starts to come online, what’s left? Let’s just pick that away.

Russ: We just finished a whole series of, of quick hacks, which is really, a start of that for us, of giving people a very quick way to get started with specific things. But what are these what what’s in that stack, so, our listeners can kind of refocusing, we can go back to episodes and say, start here, go here, we have that but what would be the guide that you would give them?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Let me get this for you here. Like, we only have a half an hour. Yeah, hold on. But really the proneuro program is photobiomodulation is the P. R is repair, regrow and regain. How is the science of recovery? O, is optimized supplements. So, you can supercharge your performance and would be nutrition, detox in water, removing the barriers to your recovery. E is exercise. Using simple strategies to activate your body. U is unwinding, unstressed, got to relax the mind. Ares restore was for sleep reenergize. And, O, is oneness source connection, mindfulness. So those are broad terms that your kind of everybody has their anagram, if you will. So it doesn’t really matter where everybody’s like, you talk to people in there on the best probiotics in the world, and drinking their kombucha and all this stuff. So you sort of got to put it, take them apart and walk them through it and say what I don’t understand about fish oil. So that’s how you do it, depending on how much legwork they want to put in, but you must cover as many areas as possible. Because it’s your whole day, really. So recovery, let’s just put it this way. Raising your HRV, starts when you open your eyes in the morning. And that’s really then how you spend your energy through the day. How you refuel your body. And then what you do it to recover in your restfulness. See, so it’s like, we’ll just put just type in 10 packs for HRV or send me an email, and I’ll send you what the 10 hacks that we use that are super hacks. And there’s a bunch of them. But really, you can’t like the most garden variety thing is one use light. And if you don’t buy stuff, get some light on and see what happens there. Yeah, yeah, as these things start to improve, then you can pick them up.

Russ: What are some of the tips for while I’m awake? How do I recover from a really stressful day?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Here’s the scenario. One of the things is, remember, we said that bench pressing, right, stuff like that. So yeah, if you can bench press 300 pounds, you’re healthy, right, quote, unquote, right? Or piano playing is very good for the brain for rehab. But if you have a stroke, and your fingers don’t work, or it’s too challenging, so one of the things that you have to kind of get with is, how much can you strain? How much can you physically or mentally strain during the day? What is these lifestyle stressors like toxic relationships or stress at work or food shortages or social inequality or the pandemic? I mean, where are you putting your energy because as soon as you open you are burning calories all day, you’re using your ATP, your energy all day, you have to kind of start making choices.

Russ: It’s true. Like, I mean, it’s such an important thing you just said, and Sarah, I’ve talked about this, too, we were like, yeah, don’t take, use the time wisely, right. Like, get off your screen, like my wife. And I have had this last week, really spent a lot of time just putting our phones on at night. And we’re just both so busy with work and right, and all this stuff that we’re doing that it’s really hard to put your phone down, it’s right there next to the bed.

Dr. Joe DiDuro:

75% of everyone in the world has their phone within arm’s reach of them 24 hours a day. So it’s choices, choices are things that you have to be in.

So you have to get a treat to an outcome. What do you want? And then not what are you willing to give up?

Like, they say, ask the man what if he’s willing to give up the things that made him sick? Before you treat him.

So I want to point out that the thing about how you stress your day, I mean, you’re this, you know, when we talk about resiliency, is like grit, plus gratitude. Because people can be gritty and burn themselves right out because they’re in sympathetic overdrive. But they have to learn to become you can’t make yourself go to sleep and you can’t make yourself relax, you can’t do these things. You need skills, you need to develop tools, and skills to be able to do these things. People say, “Well, I go to bed, well, I’m going to crash.” Is that a nice thing? And then I’m going to have an alarm to wake me up. I mean, is that a good psychology? Is it at all? It any? How about this? It’s not cool. You don’t have the skill to crap to land a helicopter rapidly. You don’t have that skill; you need to learn. You need to land like a plane real slow, like a beginner. So people got to get their heads on straight.

Russ: And we’re at our time. And I think that that’s a really great place to finish, which is, this is a gradual process. Right? This is a marathon. And I think that one of the challenges with biohacking and quick hacks is that people want an answer right now. And they want it fast. It’s all available on Google, I should be able to go to Google and figure out how to live longer, and I want that list. And it’s what you’re saying it’s not that way.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, you said you want to you’re so busy during the day, and I would reframe that to say, how productive are you? What are you producing? At the end of the day? And that’s really what we want to do, we want to produce a healthy lifestyle. I think of it that way. If that was your goal, if that was your goal, I want longevity vitality, and resiliency.

Russ: Dr. Joe, thank you.

Sarah: Thank you so much, Joe. We’ll put everything in the show notes. That was brilliant. Thank you. Brilliant as ever.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Thanks to everybody out there in internet land would be with you.


🚨Follow-up with Dr. Joe and chat about quantified self🚨


Sarah: We had Dr. Joe talking to us about resilience. And in that we had a little bit about monitoring. But we’ve got him back on the show. We don’t normally have our guests back. Here he is with new glasses. Because I wanted to talk a bit about monitoring, we have our new sponsor Inside Tracker. But it’s something that actually is part of what we’re talking about anyway, part of kind of sovereignty and taking responsibility is you have to measure to know what’s going on. And really, Dr. Joe is the king of measuring. So for his little segment, we’re not going to do the challenge but actually I do it because Joe does monitor my sleep data, which is one of the metrics we can talk about.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: It’s good to be here, it’s good to be here. There’s a big, there is a big question when we track people and their data, that who owns their data? And that’s a really important thing, that, you know, it’s your data, you own it. And it’s just like, you know, if you had a HIV positive test, is that gonna be revealed? Or if you have these things, so, it’s definitely a thing that, you know, we, as coach, as a coach, you know, you really don’t want to, you know, reveal stuff about their data, because it is very personal. And when you get something like the inside tracker, which is, you know, breaking you down as an individual to the minimum level, blood DNA lifestyle habits, you know, that’s, that’s really, they’re gonna know the nitty gritty. Yeah, and you have to be in charge of your data. Don’t forget, that’s part of sovereignty, too.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And having a coach that you trust and making sure you’ve got all the systems in place, but still have having the metrics that you can actually look at and follow. I think that’s an integral part of your coaching Joe, maybe you could just talk us through why you think it’s so important?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, we can’t we know, we have to you to retreat to an outcome. So when people ask us, what is it that you know, we have, you know, what, what should I do? I mean, you have all these techniques, you have photobiomodulation, you have the, you know, brain you have nasal, you have blood? What should we do? Well, it really depends on what your outcome, what is it that you want? I mean, do you want to have more energy? Do you want to sleep better? Do you want to recover from a concussion or an injury or a physical problem? Is it more of an emotional type of thing that you’re looking for? Because, you know, when you put light on the body, that many things can change. But if you don’t monitor them, you don’t have any data? You don’t have any information, you can say, “Well, I don’t feel any different.” But question is, how is that possible? If you put your hand in a microwave, and I turned it on for 20 minutes, and you pulled it out, you say, but I really don’t feel anything. That doesn’t make sense. Because the energy, in our case, light energy is entering your body, more or less, to some degree, it’s going to have some effect. We just have to get a data point to watch that. And when you have something like the Inside Tracker, that’s able to get down to the nitty gritty of a personalized system. That should give us great insights as to what is your sticking point? Where is the linchpin? Where’s the wheels? Not rolling? In this black box? Which is the human system?

Sarah: And what do you think about like having the genetics part because for me, that’s been hugely useful. Because you’re not so much tracking what you’re doing, you’re checking, you’re looking at predispositions, which, again, is something especially if you’re working with a coach, but even if you are working on your own, that’s a really cool, really cool data points to have.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, what they’re doing really what you’re doing when you take an algorithm, right, and that’s like machine learning. So they’re taking, you have a personalized platform, that’s going to give you personalized nutrition and supplements, optimal biomarkers zones for your numbers. And if you’re really looking at the individual, it’s really digging deep into this. What is your genetics? What is it that you ...? How is it going to interfere with you getting the outcome that you want, as an example, drug companies now, do a genetic screen for oxy cotton. Because some people have a genetic makeup that doesn’t allow them the drug molecule to interact with the receptors on your nervous system. So those are the people that take a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot and don’t have any effect. To be important to know. And I’m sure that these guys are going to be able to uncover these little, what do you want to call them personal glitches? That does really well it should work for you. Well, but it’s me. It’s not like a trial of 3000 people.

Russ: What’s interesting there, Joe is that like, you often say these things like, I mean, I find myself especially, I eat something and like, I feel like crap, or I just feel out of it today. But like to be able to identify that and narrow it down to something that is measurable, and some of you can take action against is incredibly important. I mean, I think that’s why I’m so drawn to Sarah and to you, Joe. And in a professional way, of course, but that you provide that for us and our audience has an understanding of, it’s not just a feeling you have other stuff that you can actually do and take action against that, change the way you eat, change your exercise regimen, sleep differently, sleep better, those are all things that kind of jump into that. So to get a better understanding of those numbers. That’s something where I think there’s a lot of still confusion, like I get all these reports, what do I do with all that now?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: When you look at the individual, if you don’t have that, what I’m trying to point out is that this is an approach that’s been around for a while. And when you look at Alzheimer’s people, what you’re trying to do is, is the same thing. Why do you go and talk to your doctor, and he’s not listening it? So his ability to listen is one thing, his ability to analyze your data is another thing. And the point is, if we move into machine learning, and algorithms, and we start with the basics we feed in this is your data. This is your punch card, basically. Then, and then if the data comes into the machine, you don’t have to talk to the doctor. So my sleep, my steps, my activity level and I start to get on their plan of this is what you eat for your body. This is, I did a bunch of these things have been very interested in this, as well, the quantified self-approach that we kind of as biohackers can point to, you sort of miss it, and you can’t really stand up and say, “Well, I’m different. People don’t really, I don’t have that problem, but a lot of other people do.” And that’s really how you can sort of unravel this thing. And you don’t really want to, it’s not making a diagnosis, but it’s moving you as a singular individual towards actionable and meaningful steps to reach your goals that you want.

Russ: There’s and then there’s this thing, though, that if you knew before you did something like, if I knew before I was gonna put something into my body that it was, I was going to have a visceral reaction to it, or then I wouldn’t put it in my body. But to know beforehand, well, these are some of the markers you should be looking out for, mean, this is what we have available to us now as more technologically advanced future, or world where we can track all these things and take these numbers, that to me seems like probably one of the most powerful things that we have in front of us to be able to know, before we do something, that it could be bad for us and make us feel terrible.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Think about this, that, I was gonna get my PhD in biomedical engineering, when I finished chiropractic college, and then my wife said, “I’m pregnant,” we had to go start to work. But the reality of it is, is I’m doing that right now, I’m building technologies, and I’m gonna really pretty much on the cutting edge of what sort of stuff is out there. And what’s happening, as well as Sarah, she’s making some unbelievably great things. So, we’re basically put, right at the point of the spear, so think about this, if you had, there was a company that I worked with a couple of years ago, that did something very similar to this, and the whole AI would then punch out this, they did this for dementia people or mild cognitive impairment, people, so that they would punch out that the daily rigmarole and stuff that you would need to do and eat and supplements and so we have the sheet, these are the things that you should do. And if we highlighted them, this is your weakest spot, and this is your highest spot. Coffee is good for some people, bad for others, it’s incense. So red meat is good for some people, bad for others. So, if we could narrow this down in this Inside Tracker really appears to be launching into this field at record speed. I think it’s going to be very excellent for all people, not just optimizers but people who have a little wear on the tires.

Sarah: That’s a good way to put it, Joe. Alright, so maybe summarize for us, then what do you think? Where should people start with monitoring? Because some of this stuff is quite intense to jump straight into, say, for example, the genetics. But where would you start people off? And how would you, kind of incrementally get them to quantify what they’re doing so that it becomes useful and not overwhelming?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Well, the reality is change is painful, in most sense, change is painful. So the reality of it is how strong of a pain so you either your diagnosis is very painful. And you want to chip make a change. But there’s what is the greatest gift you think you could give to your children? They want my professor in the anatomy of the central nervous system in chiropractic college, he said that you should journal every day. Because that’s the legacy that you give to your children. You know what I mean? A child of 15 can’t understand what the father of 40 is going through. So, maybe, that’s a good reflection, so maybe that’s a way to track yourself. That’s very easy. But that’s kind of hard. It’s easy to strap something on and do these other things. Because really, the gift that you can give them is your genetic material, is your genetic workup. This is what I have. This is the way I am, which means this is somewhat what you are. And wouldn’t you really like to have that in your genealogy is, I have a great cartoon in my presentation that says, “I know, this is what you have, because my father treated your father for these diseases in that last generation.” When you go in for the $100,000, executive, the guys are making $4 billion a year as the CEO. They say they put you through a week at the Mayo Clinic and do all the testing on you to make sure that you’re going to be alive to make the company money. At the end, they say, “What your father have, what your mother have, which your grandfather has, that’s what you’re gonna have. So work with it.” So take a generalization and make it into something extremely specific. I think it’s valuable, period. But that’s not usually enough motivation for people. So, I would say, do it.

Russ: Which is shocking, that it’s not right. It’s shocking that that’s not enough motivation. I mean, I watched my mother die. I mean, I watched it 52 years old from cancer. Like, if that wasn’t a warning sign of at all, does it mean that I’m exercising regularly? Does it mean that I’m eating? Well, and no, it doesn’t mean that since she was, this is almost 25 years ago. But you have to take that into account. And we Sarah and I just interviewed someone. And it one of his lines stuck with me, which was, “How are you going to choose to live the rest of the days of your life? If you know, you only have X amount of days, because we’re all gonna die? How do you choose to live those?” And I think it’s you’ve just, we have choice. We are lucky that we have choice. So now that we have information that informs of choices, one of them being your history, others being data now, we should be living our best lives every single day. So let’s take the rebel scientists podcasting and share people like you, Dr. Joe, it to give people a better version of themselves. I don’t know.

Sarah: No, I think that’s totally right. And for a lot of these tracking things, they actually do take into account that kind of apathy of people. And they sort of gamify it to a point where you want to do better than x. So a lot of these you can compare your data. I mean, Joe and I, when we’re doing the coaching, we have a chart so we can look to see, okay, and often Joe says my HRV is better than yours this week, so you know, there’s more of a carrot than a stick sometimes, you don’t always have to use the stick, it’s not always moving away from pain. Sometimes, it’s just you’re moving towards better health, you’re in a bit of a competition, you want to do better. And I think that’s the good thing about a lot of these monitoring apps. If you’re informed, you can make a choice. If you’re not informed, it’s very difficult to make a choice. I’ve had all my genetics done and I actually got my dad done because I want it all the information because as you know, when you do the DNA, you really only get your mother’s side. So I set the kit off to my dad. He I think had no idea what he was doing actually, but anyway, he gave me his data. But I then found, “Okay, I have a propensity for Alzheimer’s, for example, and that has totally motivated me and as today I’m just about to launch a product that’s going to be helpful for people with neuro degeneration because I was totally spurred on by that inflammation, I have the APOE4 double allele. But I think these products, these new apps and things that are out are really helpful in that if you get a good one that gives you some nice information in a digestible way, then it’s cool. And if it’s overwhelming, there are people like Dr. Joe who do excellent coaching, which is another thing that I want to put out there because people spend more money on their cars and their pets, getting them all tuned up and doing everything, then, actually set aside some money to actually get a coach if this is something that you’re struggling with, because then you’re kept on, you have someone’s keep you accountable, which is maybe, what some people are missing in all this.

Russ: Yeah. Dr. Joe, how do people find you? Or are you a ninja here?

Dr. Joe DiDuro: I’m not easy to get to. But you can google Proneurolight.com, that’s my website where we sell a suite of transcranial photobiomodulation devices. So people who want to get better, this is a great way to jumpstart, changing your DNA, let’s just put it out there, I mean, it’s going to change you. And it’s going to change the expression of your genetics. So, that’s just the hardcore facts of it, we’re going to change you. And sometimes, we need to hold the hand. And sometimes we need to walk you through this. We have this science, we have this data, I’m sure that the Inside Tracker people have set up a system to kind of walk people through that we’re about, we’re all about giving people that the energy to serve, to kind of overcome things, most people don’t really get the idea that you need energy to heal. And in order to get that energy, we’ve got to kind of plug the holes and fill up the bucket so that you can make this launch. And I think these are the approaches. These are the tools that fit into the approach of getting you more energy into your system.

Sarah: Well, thank you, Joe.

Dr. Joe DiDuro: Great pod, great. Thank you for bringing this product to your audience. I think it’s gonna be a real, real game changer for many, many people. Thanks for talking.

Sarah: Yeah, we think so too, take care.


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